MyVFW Social Network    Latest MyVFW Photos   Latest MyVFW Videos    MyVFW Groups    Latest Network News

Author Topic: QUIZ: Post Budget and Quartermaster's authority to Disburse Funds  (Read 2952 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline DoggyDaddy

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5255
  • Have Dog Will Travel
    • VFW Post 1716, Freedom CA
    • Email
Here is the question.... Think long and hard before you answer.

If a Post has a budget that was voted on, is it necessary to make a
motion and vote on paying bills in the budget, i.e. Payroll, utilities,
food, liquor, National Home, Delegate dues, taxes, insurance , etc.


Joe Kleinsmith
All State VFW Post 1716 Cmdr (1998-2000)
Cpt, VFW Post Honor Guard, Retired (1991-2009)
SC-SB County Council Cmdr (1996-1997)
SFC, US Army, Retired (1971-1991)
Full Time RV'er
www.vfwwebcom.org/ca/post1716
http://vfwwebcom.org/ca/Post1716HonorGuard/

Offline d.peirce

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1353
  • Former Quartermaster of a Homeless Post
    • Email
Re: QUIZ: Post Budget and Quartermaster's authority to Disburse Funds
« Reply #1 on: October 19, 2009, 06:24:11 pm »
The 'Authority of the Quartermaster to disburse' is clearly defined on the CD 2009-10 provided to all Quartermasters elected for the current year. "The Post Quartermaster." Manuel of Procedure, Section 218 (a) (5).

One should also read the additional paragraph 'Vouchers/Orders" for clarity.

As well, the next paragraph 'Financial Report.'

Finally from FAQ - Answer ID 165 {www.vfw.org} "Can the Quartermaster's Report be questioned once the report has been accepted and audited?"

Vouchers are provided to the Quartermaster by the Adjutant. Approved by the Commander and voted by the Post. - Reported  to the Post Monthly. -- Quarterly.

In my opinion: The answer to the question is "Yes".
A Monthly Quartermaster's Report is informational. Do not require a vote unless audited.
A voucher requires a vote of the Post before a Quartermaster can disburse.
Especially on the Trustee's Quarterly Report
D. Peirce
Former Quartermaster
Post 8771
Sudbury, MA
www.vfwwebcom.org/ma/post8771

Offline IJK3770

  • Dept of Mo Webmaster, QM Post 3770, Mtn Grove, Mo
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3282
    • Mtn Grove VFW Post 3770
Re: QUIZ: Post Budget and Quartermaster's authority to Disburse Funds
« Reply #2 on: October 19, 2009, 07:41:27 pm »
    I have to say "No".  If the budget was voted on and passed that gives the adjutant and the quartermaster the authority to pay all that was on the approved budget.  We have it in our standing rules for the utility/insurance/repair bills to be paid when they are due and our "Donation budget" is presented and voted on during the July meeting thereby freeing the adjutant and quartermaster to make the donations in the prescribed months and also freeing the membership from having to discuss them one at a time each month.  This does not preclude any member from making a motion to make a donation that was not on the "Donation budget".  Seems to work well at our post.  VOD/PP are included on the "Donation budget" list.
Cheerily
IJK
All-State Post QM :
97-98,98-99,99-00,00-01,01-02, 03-04,04-05,06-07,08-09, 09-10,10-11,11-12,12-13,

Assistant Inspector General 2008-09
National Aide-de-Camp 2009-10
National Aide-de-Camp 2010-11
Assistant Inspector General 2011-2012
National Aide-de-Camp 2013-2014

IRS Post Audit Survivor

Offline ZAP44

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 441
Re: QUIZ: Post Budget and Quartermaster's authority to Disburse Funds
« Reply #3 on: October 19, 2009, 08:43:34 pm »
No.  The rule is a QM may not disburse funds without proper authority.  A voted budget would serve as that authority.  Even non-budgeted in circumstances which do not permit a vote before payment can be disbursed if required.   

CD 2009-10 QM Manual

A Quartermaster may NOT disburse the funds of the Post without receiving proper authority from that Post by action on the floor at a regular or special meeting and the approval of the Post Commander. The Uniform System of Records and Accounts provides for a voucher which must be used. This simply means an approved paper voucher/order must be made for presentation to the Post for consideration of payment. Bills are presented to the Post for action before they are paid, except where circumstances do not permit a prior presentation.

tstruwe

  • Guest
Re: QUIZ: Post Budget and Quartermaster's authority to Disburse Funds
« Reply #4 on: October 19, 2009, 10:32:51 pm »
I would have to say no also.  However, if you are useing a budget as the source of authority for expenditure my question is:  What happens when the actual income falls below the projected revenue?  Unless your budget is entirely supported by funds already on hand, are you accepting (authorizing) a risk above actual income and incurring debt (NOT authorized in Bylaws or MOP to be done by the QM).

Hopefully a Post operating under the pre-authority of a budget has a QM that is aware of the limitations that can occur!

Offline easingwr670

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 850
  • 1st Bn 505th PIR, 3rd Bde, 82nd Abn RVN 69
    • Email
Re: QUIZ: Post Budget and Quartermaster's authority to Disburse Funds
« Reply #5 on: October 20, 2009, 05:47:21 am »
Oh My! Such long winded replies to a short answer.
If the expenditured are covered in the approved budget, individual approval is not needed. ;)
Richard C. "Dick" Easingwood
Past NC Administrator
VFW Member Since 1969
Life Member Since 1989(Gold Legacy)
District QM (6 Yrs Total)
District Inspector
Past Post QM (12 Yrs Total)
Cootie CCDB 24 Yrs Total)
Asst Inspector General (2007 til     )
http://www.myvfw.org/nc/dist8

Offline d.peirce

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1353
  • Former Quartermaster of a Homeless Post
    • Email
Re: QUIZ: Post Budget and Quartermaster's authority to Disburse Funds
« Reply #6 on: October 20, 2009, 09:19:18 am »
My "Mea culpa."
Guess I am the only one who does 'not' have a budget. Our biggest & only bill is paying for our monthly meeting dinner.
Incidentally -- payment is collected prior to adjournment and paid immediately following.
D. Peirce
Former Quartermaster
Post 8771
Sudbury, MA
www.vfwwebcom.org/ma/post8771

Offline easingwr670

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 850
  • 1st Bn 505th PIR, 3rd Bde, 82nd Abn RVN 69
    • Email
Re: QUIZ: Post Budget and Quartermaster's authority to Disburse Funds
« Reply #7 on: October 20, 2009, 10:11:52 pm »
I hope you write receipts. :D
Richard C. "Dick" Easingwood
Past NC Administrator
VFW Member Since 1969
Life Member Since 1989(Gold Legacy)
District QM (6 Yrs Total)
District Inspector
Past Post QM (12 Yrs Total)
Cootie CCDB 24 Yrs Total)
Asst Inspector General (2007 til     )
http://www.myvfw.org/nc/dist8

Offline Chris Weber 5468

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 902
    • Email
Re: QUIZ: Post Budget and Quartermaster's authority to Disburse Funds
« Reply #8 on: October 21, 2009, 07:24:52 am »
While not a Quartermaster, I learned that Budgets are Guidelines for PROJECTED Incomes and Expendentures. The budget is set in stone so to say and adjustments may be made on the go. It does serve nice as to knowing your preset intentions as you go through the year.
My Post is Homeless and we are very active in the community and all the Programs. We do not use a Budget and we use the Voucher System as in the By Laws.
Chris Weber
Adjutant, 12th District
District 12 VSIO
National Aide-De-Camp    5 times
All American District Adjutant 2009 - 2010
All State District Commander 2008 - 2009
All State Post Commander, 1999 - 2000 - 2001
Trustee, Veteran Service Officer, Post 5468
Eureka, Missouri

Offline d.peirce

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1353
  • Former Quartermaster of a Homeless Post
    • Email
Re: QUIZ: Post Budget and Quartermaster's authority to Disburse Funds
« Reply #9 on: October 21, 2009, 08:56:23 am »
Honorable Sir, As to receipts:
Members are not supplied with receipts as our luncheon meetings require a dinner reservation. We do use a Roster. We do supply receipts to those who request one. Usually individuals requesting are Government employees.
The only problem we have is when a member reserves and neglects to show up. Thus an uneaten meal which must be paid for.
However there has never been an occasion when, becoming aware, a member has not stepped forward, paid for the meal and taken it home [boxed] for his lady or significant other. Usually a Non-member Supporter! ;)
Our Commander keeps a call list of those reserving a meal. The Adjutant keeps the attendance roster. I keep a copy of the {Paid bill.} & Bank Deposit (Same Day) > Floats my boat. We know who amongst us knows the meaning of Dixit et Fecit  and who doesn't.
D. Peirce
Former Quartermaster
Post 8771
Sudbury, MA
www.vfwwebcom.org/ma/post8771

Offline ZAP44

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 441
Re: QUIZ: Post Budget and Quartermaster's authority to Disburse Funds
« Reply #10 on: October 21, 2009, 10:25:24 am »
Appears awful shaky to me Don.   How are the gratuities handled?  What if you have an official guest?  What if you have an unofficial guest?  Any kick backs or freebees for using that particular restaurant?  I might have to come down and check this operation out…for the good of the order of course.  What’s on the menu?

Offline DoggyDaddy

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5255
  • Have Dog Will Travel
    • VFW Post 1716, Freedom CA
    • Email
Re: QUIZ: Post Budget and Quartermaster's authority to Disburse Funds
« Reply #11 on: October 21, 2009, 07:06:24 pm »
Thank you for responding to this Quiz.  This issue came up at a Post meeting.
I did not know the answer myself....so I asked VFW FAQ,
and about ten days later, Well, this was their reply.
You can Grade yourself.

Customer (J Kleinsmith) - 10/09/2009 11:36 AM
If a Post has a budget that was voted on, is it necessary to make a
motion and vote on paying bills in the budget, i.e. Payroll, utilities,
food, liquor, National Home, Delegate dues, taxes, insurance , etc.


Monday, October 19, 2009 7:47 AM
Mr. Kleinsmith,
Thank you for contacting VFW FAQ.
You pose an interesting question and after some internal discussion have
concluded the following.
Many VFW Post that have adopted by-laws use the template provided by the
National Headquarters. Under the heading "Expenditure of Funds" it
states "The adoption of this article shall constitute authorization by
the Post for the payment of bills when and as due for...(specific
item(s))...provided the amounts have been previously established by the
Post."
It is our belief that a budget or a proper motion, voted on and passed
by a majority of the members present at a meeting does exactly that,
establish the amount.
The issue arises when we look at the next article which states "No other
payment or expenditure shall be made except on the specific
authorization of the Post in each and every case".
So now we need to define specific authorization. Specific authorization
is certainly a proper motion passed by the body, for that there is no
argument. What is specific authorization in a budget? We would not
consider a budget made of 1 line stating "Post Expenses, $10,000" and
call that a "specific authorization". If a post adopts a budget that is
specific in nature (i.e. Programs, Buddy Poppy Purchase, $1000) we
believe that constitutes "specific authorization".
In both cases, the QM is still accountable and required to report on all
receipts and disbursements, and that report shall be accepted by the
post.

David E. Prohaska
Assistant Director ~ Administrative Operations
Veterans of Foreign Wars of the United States
406 West 34th Street, Kansas City, MO 64111
Joe Kleinsmith
All State VFW Post 1716 Cmdr (1998-2000)
Cpt, VFW Post Honor Guard, Retired (1991-2009)
SC-SB County Council Cmdr (1996-1997)
SFC, US Army, Retired (1971-1991)
Full Time RV'er
www.vfwwebcom.org/ca/post1716
http://vfwwebcom.org/ca/Post1716HonorGuard/

Offline ZAP44

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 441
Re: QUIZ: Post Budget and Quartermaster's authority to Disburse Funds
« Reply #12 on: October 21, 2009, 08:19:17 pm »
Thanks DD my suspicions are confirmed.  I see that this comes from Administrative Operations. These are the same fine folks that stated the word “present” in the by-laws is “implied” and members must be physically present and can't attend meetings via Web conferencing or other methods.  To my knowledge nothing is to be implied in the By-laws….they are what they are.  Seems headquarters likes reading things into the by-laws that doesn’t exist. 

Your response back from National on this issue, with “Our belief” “So now we need to define” “If a post adopts a budget that is specific in nature (i.e. Programs, Buddy Poppy Purchase, $1000) we believe” does not comply with the National By-laws period.  How about this…don’t define or believe anything, just follow the by-laws.  I will continue operating IAW the By-laws which is contained in part in my post of Oct 19th.  Don’t like it?  Fire me.

« Last Edit: October 21, 2009, 09:17:58 pm by ZAP44 »

Offline IJK3770

  • Dept of Mo Webmaster, QM Post 3770, Mtn Grove, Mo
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3282
    • Mtn Grove VFW Post 3770
Re: QUIZ: Post Budget and Quartermaster's authority to Disburse Funds
« Reply #13 on: November 15, 2009, 09:44:03 pm »
It seems the fine folks at Administrative Operations are like the judges in this country that want to interpret the Constitution to fit what they want instead of what it says.
IJK
All-State Post QM :
97-98,98-99,99-00,00-01,01-02, 03-04,04-05,06-07,08-09, 09-10,10-11,11-12,12-13,

Assistant Inspector General 2008-09
National Aide-de-Camp 2009-10
National Aide-de-Camp 2010-11
Assistant Inspector General 2011-2012
National Aide-de-Camp 2013-2014

IRS Post Audit Survivor