Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
November 24, 2009, 06:43:00 AM

Login with username, password and session length
Have you checked out and joined the VFW WebCOM Video Channel yet?

http://video.vfwwebcom.org/
16472 Posts in 5333 Topics by 2656 Members
Latest Member: BackRescue
Search:     Advanced search
VFW News | VFW Depts | VFW Posts | Videos | Toolbars | About | My VFW WebCOM
+  VFW WebCOM Membership Forum
|-+  VFW Discussion
| |-+  General Discussion: VFW
| | |-+  Discontinue Traditional VFW Caps
« previous next »
Pages: 1 ... 3 4 [5] Go Down Print
Author Topic: Discontinue Traditional VFW Caps  (Read 7231 times)
Redmaxx 7546
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1386



Email
« Reply #60 on: July 09, 2009, 09:09:29 AM »

Personally, I think that the current hat rocks!  I am very proud to wear it whenever I can.  The only pins I have on my hat are my Chaplain Cross and the Holy Spirit Dove pin that the State Chaplain gave me.  I agree with the previous posting of "If it isn't broke, don't try and fix it."  Also, when I'm making hospital, home & nursing home visits, I look way more professional than I would with a baseball cap.  Ever since I was a kid I've always had respect for those who wore the VFW cap.  My grandpa was a WWI VFW member.  Now I am carrying on where he left off.  I think that it all boils down to tradition.  Ever since the VFW's inception, the current hat has been there.  Just like in ancient times, you wouldn't tell a Spartan to change his headgear.  That's just who they were.  A tight band of brothers who fought together side by side.  They gave their all to defend what they believed in.  Sounds like us eh?  So, let's just keep on giving our all and don't let tradition die.  Pro Deo Et Patria!  (For God and Country)
Chappy

Amen to that chaplindale.
Report to moderator   Logged

4th District Jr. Vice 2009 -2010
Post Commander 2008 - 2009
4th District Employment/Homeless Vet Chair 2008 - 2010
Post Sr. Vice 2007 - 2008
4th District Service Office
Spike55
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1


Email
« Reply #61 on: July 09, 2009, 11:15:34 AM »

I am new to the e-reflector.

Personally, there should be TWO approved "covers", a baseball
type cap for informal, and the Garrison cap for formal, meetings,
color guards, funerals, and conventions.

One thing that I do like about the Garrison cap is the ability to
tuck it away when uncovered conditions exist. The use of the
"flea-market" crap on the hats should be disallowed (IMHO).

BTW we better stick together and seek a common agreement
with this cap/hat issue, because there are more things that
need our undivided attention.

Walter - Spike55 - exNavy Radioman - VietNam in country
Report to moderator   Logged
chaplaindale
Chappy
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 15



WWW
« Reply #62 on: July 09, 2009, 05:43:27 PM »

Thanks Redmaxx.  Hooyah!
Report to moderator   Logged

Dale A. Iannello
District #3 Chaplain
Post #969 Chaplain
Pro Deo Et Patria
Loadtoad
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 156


nitromethane30@commspeed.net
Email
« Reply #63 on: July 09, 2009, 05:45:39 PM »

All those pins we see and possibly wear ourselves are a form of fundraising.  If we do away with wearing the pins, there is no purpose in purchasing them, thus no fundraising.  The pins are a long standing tradition and in some cases tell a story of that person.  I see no reason to discontinue the pins unless we can come up with a better means of raising funds  to replace the funds that would have been generated by the sale of pins.
Report to moderator   Logged

Christopher Davey
Chief of Staff
Dept. of Iowa
chaplaindale
Chappy
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 15



WWW
« Reply #64 on: July 10, 2009, 08:47:31 AM »

You should see my friend Mark Thompson's hat.  It weighs like 2 pounds.  Now that's a lot of pins.  Grin  Sometimes when you look at a person's hat it's like a biography of who that person is.  For some more history on the VFW hat I have an article here from Dan West of VFW Texas Online.  It is very interesting.

My research of the overseas cap comes mostly from old “Star & Stripes” new articles.  The “Overseas Cap” was “Officially adopted as part of the uniform for officers, soldiers and other uniformed members of the A.E.F.” (American Expeditionary Force) in February of 1918.  “When issued the overseas cap, the service member was expected to turn in their regulation hat” (Known as the Campaign Hat also known as the Smokey the Bear hat).  This hat is currently worn by Marine Drill Instructors and Army Drill Sergeants.

From what I can tell the overseas cap was only adopted after American Forces who were serving in the trenches discovered that their campaign hat was ill suited for the terrain and weather and “Liberated” French caps for use in the trenches.  The French caps where an early version of the overseas cap and kept a soldiers head warm, dry and could be worn under a helmet or easily stuffed into a pocket.  Soon entire units had unofficially adopted the headgear and it was not too much longer that the practicality of the “Overseas Cap” was made an official part of the uniform while stationed overseas in the combat theater of operations.

Reports in the “Stars & Stripes” show a difference of opinion over the “Overseas Cap” as compared to the “Campaign Hat” listing the pro’s and con’s of each.  There was also orders issued to prevent units from decorating their “Overseas Caps” with unit crests and ranks of insignia, it seems to have not worked because the Marines totally ignored the orders and put their “Sacred Emblem” the Eagle, Globe and Anchor on the cap.  No order from war department was going to change that and Army units followed the example of the Marines.

Soon after, the Army did issue caps with different color piping with each color representing infantry, artillery, etc.

Sometime later, and I have not been able to confirm this, if it is not fact then it should be, a General officer and one of his Colonels was walking on a stateside base and the General saw several soldiers wearing the “Overseas Cap” which was not authorized for wear stateside at the time, he told the Colonel to “Put those soldiers on report and have them remove that cap”  The Colonel turned to the General and said “General you tell them, the unit crest in those caps tell me those boys served in the trenches at Chateau Thierry and thank God for them.” and thus Americas first decoration for war time service, the Overseas Cap was born.

I checked with National VFW even going to National Headquarters several years ago and researching through the archives to find the first use of the cap and when it was officially adopted.  I had several people from National assist me with this and we could not find any mention of the Overseas Cap being officially adopted at a National Convention.  I am sure it exists as the records at national VFW are extensive.

Photographic records show National CIC Hartung (1915-16) wearing an Overseas Cap that appears to be a military overseas cap as the Cross of Malta is on the wrong side and the letters VFW are not on it and the Post number is in the center of the fold.  This appears to be a picture taken later as America did not enter the war till April of 1917 and troops did not arrive in France till late 1917.

The next photograph to show an overseas cap is worn by CIC Carver (1928-29) and this one is a military overseas cap and appears to be an official military photo as he is in his military uniform. 

Photographs indicate that sometime in the late 30’s it appears the transformation from the traditional “Barracks Hat” to the “Overseas Cap” was made by the VFW.

The first catalog of the VFW in 1949 has them listed as the official headgear of the VFW as it was “A war veteran’s cap and the VFW is a war veteran’s organization.” 

Today anyone wearing the overseas cap is synonymous with military service which is why almost all the Veteran Service Organizations have adopted it.  You can wear a ball cap that says Veteran on it but only the Overseas Cap advertises Veteran at any angle, front, side and back.  It is a unique emblem of patriotic service to America that is easily recognized by all.



Report to moderator   Logged

Dale A. Iannello
District #3 Chaplain
Post #969 Chaplain
Pro Deo Et Patria
Jerry P3150
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 191


« Reply #65 on: July 10, 2009, 09:00:14 AM »

  I would like to see a numerical limit on how many pins would be appropriate to wear.  Some of the Comrades I see walk with a forward list due to the weight of the pins on the cap. I've seen Homecoming pins from twenty years ago on caps.  
  Full disclosure, my cap has the current Cmdr-in-Chief pin , Current Dept. Cmdr pin , National Home Life membership pin, POW-MIA pin  and my Air Force Command Aircrew member pin.
Report to moderator   Logged

Jerry Peterson
VFW Post 3150
Joined as a Life Member in 1994
National Aide-De-Camp (2006-2007)
SMSgt, US Air Force (Retired)
http://www.vfwwebcom.org/va/post3150
http://www.vfwwebcom.org/va/dist10
http://www.vfwwebcom.org/virginia
Pages: 1 ... 3 4 [5] Go Up Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!

Visit My VFW WebCOM
Powered by SMF 1.1.9 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC Design by 7dana.com