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Author Topic: Seperation of Post and Home Associations  (Read 2398 times)

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Offline dnkldorf

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Seperation of Post and Home Associations
« on: August 16, 2012, 05:37:51 am »
Can the Post Commander also be the President of the Home Association, and can the Post QtrMstr, also serve as bar tender and Bar Manager?

I am told that there has to be separation of duties, in order to be considered separate entities under the VFW?

Anyone know for sure how these are supposed to work?

 

Offline IJK3770

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Re: Seperation of Post and Home Associations
« Reply #1 on: August 17, 2012, 12:33:57 pm »
dnkldorf,
    I was hoping that someone more well versed than I would answer you but since they havent I will try.  I have found nothing in the by-laws that prohibit it.  I know posts that the QM serves also as the bar manager and I think that is quite common but not positive. I see no conflict of interest in the Post CDR serving also as President of the Home Association.  If I am wrong I would hope that some one corrects me.  Maybe someone can cite chapter and verse of anything prohibiting these things.  Always be careful about what you are told unless they can show you in the book.  There are oodles and oodles of misunderstandings out there.
Cheerily
IJK
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Offline dnkldorf

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Re: Seperation of Post and Home Associations
« Reply #2 on: August 17, 2012, 01:27:27 pm »
Thanks for the response. I do see that most posts have a totally differnet management team for each, and most Executive Officers are NOT listed as management team of the HA.

I think this is for total separation of the two corporations, for liability and legal reasons. I would assume then, that when the post officers run both, their is a liability issue and the post is not shielded from potential law suits because of it.

But I don't know for sure...

Offline easingwr670

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Re: Seperation of Post and Home Associations
« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2012, 09:08:29 am »
I have always said, "Look to the Department for guidance" not National.
Departments align their By-Laws/SOPs with the stste ABC/ALE rules.
Richard C. "Dick" Easingwood
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Offline dnkldorf

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Re: Seperation of Post and Home Associations
« Reply #4 on: October 29, 2012, 04:49:18 pm »
Yes, the Post Commander can also be the Home Association President.

The QtrMaster can also be Bar Manager and bartender. Dept will not get involved, nor do they seem to care.

Hense why the Qtrmaster position is the choice position to hold. You would have access to all the cash transactions, and no-one outside you or the Post Commander can question where funds went.

Slick, isn't it?

You guys thought you needed seperation huh?

 


« Last Edit: October 30, 2012, 12:44:16 pm by dnkldorf »

Offline C_Hunter

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Re: Seperation of Post and Home Associations
« Reply #5 on: October 30, 2012, 12:29:35 pm »
and no-one outside you or the Post Commander can question where funds went.


And where are your trustees?  I realize most post trustees haven't a clue about their auditing responsibilities.  Departments must start including audit procedures in their schools of instruction.

Offline Chris Weber 5468

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Re: Seperation of Post and Home Associations
« Reply #6 on: October 30, 2012, 07:45:15 pm »
The Commanders Duties from The Commanders Manual, 2012-2013, Page 168;
The Post Commander is the key officer of the Post. He, alone, represents the judicial branch of the organization and also has some of the responsibilities of the executive branch. He presides at all meetings, enforces the rules, appoints committees not otherwise provided for, and makes certain that the other officers and committeemen perform their duties.
His authority extends to the Post Home or Club to the extent of enforcing the rules of the Post and the National and Department VFW, and public laws. He represents the authority of the Post between meetings, and his voice is that of the Post membership. He sees that the Post Trustees conduct their audits, that the Post Quartermaster is bonded, and that the House Committee properly supervises the activities of the Post Home.
His authority also is limited according to the rules of the organization and the bounds of common sense. He is in no sense a dictator. He cannot order nor permit the breaking of laws nor can he supersede the recognized authority of other officers or committees. He could not, for instance, order the Club Manager to keep the clubrooms open after hours, nor could he direct the Post Quartermaster to pay an unauthorized bill.
He should be familiar with all activities of the Post. He should sit in with the Trustees at their audits, or, at least, have a sufficient knowledge of their procedure to know whether they are doing their job. He should attend the meetings of the House Committee, calling to their attention any discrepancies he may have observed or complaints he may have received. He must know that, when he signs a check, it is in payment of a legitimate expenditure.
He is the arbitrator of arguments and the judge in disputes. As a general rule, his decisions are considered correct until over-ruled by the Post meeting, the District, State Commander or Commander-in-Chief.

The Quartermasters Duties (Same Source)
The Post Quartermaster has certain definite responsibilities and duties. He is the responsible officer for all Post funds and property and his signature validates all checks. He keeps the fiscal records for the Post and has the duty of overseeing all financial transactions. He must be bonded to the Post for all funds under his control.
In the case of a large-scale Club operation, it often becomes impractical or impossible for the Post Quartermaster to physically handle all the funds or to personally keep the detailed records of operation. It is not uncommon in these cases to require that the Club Manager or a hired bookkeeper keep a separate set of club books, subject to the control of the Quartermaster and reported to the Quartermaster at regular intervals.
The Quartermaster is the responsible Post Officer in financial matters -- not necessarily the Post bookkeeper. In a large corporation the treasurer does not physically handle the bookkeeping obligations but he is responsible that they are done properly, efficiently and accurately. This may also be true of the Post Quartermaster, depending upon the Post By-Laws and Club regulations. In any case, he must be familiar with all books of record and is responsible for all required Federal and State reports and payments.
Remember that the Post cannot take away any of the authority of the Post Quartermaster although he may be relieved of some of the work.
The Quartermaster only pays bills which are authorized by Post action or under Post rules. He cannot refuse to pay a legitimate and properly authorized bill except for a lack of funds. Neither can he be forced to pay one which is not properly authorized.
Quite often a controversy arises between the Quartermaster and Club Manager as to responsibility for Club funds. Sometimes a fine point arises which must be arbitrated. As a rule of thumb, the Quartermaster keeps his nose out of the cash register except for checking purposes, and the Manager hides no transactions from the Quartermaster. The Quartermaster does have the right, and the duty, to determine that all reports are correct and that all funds are handled properly. He does not have the right to assume managerial responsibilities.
Chris Weber
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District 12 VSIO
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