Social Member or not?

[dnkldorf]

Here are the By-Laws as written for the Home Association that a post has incorporated.

Article 3

Section 1-- Membership
The membership of this corporation shall be comprised of:

A. Active Members
B. Social Members

Section 2---Active Members

A. The active members of the Corporation shall be those paid up members of the XXXXXX VFW Post # XXXX of the US of America


B. The social members shall be composed of persons not eligible to become members of the XXXXXX VFW of the United States.

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A card carrying lifetime member of this post has what, an active membership who is given certain rights and privileges spelled out in the VFW MOP and By-laws, or do they have a social membership whose certain rights and privileges can be taken away at any time, for any reason?

The State told me I am a social member, and have no rights or privileges to this post.

Thoughts?




 

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[DoggyDaddy]

Here are the By-Laws as written for the Home Association that a post has incorporated.
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The State told me I am a social member, and have no rights or privileges to this post.

I am confused, What is the "Home Association"?
When referring to "The State", do you mean Department VFW?
Have the VFW Post By-Laws been approved by Department and National??

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[Chris Weber 5468]

That is because the National VFW does not recognize Associate Membership in a Post. They are in violation of the National By Laws.

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[dnkldorf]

I am confused, What is the "Home Association"?

Beats me, I figure it's a corporation, under the Post, that manages the canteen and associated business.

When referring to "The State", do you mean Department VFW?

Probably, I'm not good at names of departments.

Have the VFW Post By-Laws been approved by Department and National??[/color]

I would assume so, but can offer nothing more than an assumption.

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[dnkldorf]

That is because the National VFW does not recognize Associate Membership in a Post. They are in violation of the National By Laws.

Well, not so fast. Look at the Fiduciary Responsibility thread. It mentions Canteen and Home Associations Rules.

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[Chris Weber 5468]

The thread 'Fiduciary Responsibility' was referring to a Powerpoint Presentation that was linked to that thread. This was developed as a training vehicle for VFW Officers. It mentions the Canteen and Home Association Rules as one of the Rules in the VFW as an outline of the Strength of rules within the VFW. National By Laws and Manual of Procedure being the top set of Rules followed by the rest of the levels, in descending order.
In the National By Laws and Manual of Procedure, there is absolutely no stipulation for Associate Membership and no Department, District, or Post may create anything that is outside the National By Laws.
Home Associations are covered in the National By Laws and the Manual of Procedure. I suggest getting a copy and studying it for clarification.

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[dnkldorf]

In the National By Laws and Manual of Procedure, there is absolutely no stipulation for Associate Membership and no Department, District, or Post may create anything that is outside the National By Laws.
Home Associations are covered in the National By Laws and the Manual of Procedure. I suggest getting a copy and studying it for clarification.

I have a copy of the podium edition, that I try and decipher as I go along. I am not well versed on this whole thing, and do not claim to be.

Here on this board people disagree on this issue, so who's right?

Did the National Dept ever rule on this, and if they did, why do posts have social memberships?

I find it hard to believe that so many posts I visit or visited, have tons of social members, and not so many active members. Especially if's it illegal.

Some thing doesn't sound right....

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[Chris Weber 5468]

Some States (Departments) do include their interpretations as to Section 7 Control of Units; in particular, the Canteen / Club Room. Missouri (where I am) chooses to stay out of the Canteen business due to liquor control issues with Missouri Revenue Department.
Your state was never identified and is it has By Laws on this.

Yes, National and the Departments on general does turn a blind eye on this issue. They are happy for the most part if a Post will generally behave in a VFW Fashion.
They do not like placing a Post under suspension (first true hit to chastise a Post) as then the Department will have to assume some liability for such Post. It will usually cause the death toll non them. Read Section 2 for the ramifications for placing a Post in Suspension. Some Posts will follow the proper State Government rules for opening their clubrooms open for general public. They will pay full taxes on everything. Some will call it their clubroom and it must follow the rules as far as eligibility being 95% qualified members and are under the false belief that Associate membership makes it qualified. If ever IRS audited, they will be busted for it. That 95%, Must be from Qualified Post members. This is why the VFW does not accept Associate Membership (partly). Here is the IRS Link on Veteran Organizations; http://www.irs.gov/irm/part4/irm_04-076-026.html
So, the bottom line, the Posts that have Associate membership are playing with fire.

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[dnkldorf]

Some States (Departments) do include their interpretations as to Section 7 Control of Units; in particular, the Canteen / Club Room. Missouri (where I am) chooses to stay out of the Canteen business due to liquor control issues with Missouri Revenue Department.
Your state was never identified and is it has By Laws on this.

Yes, National and the Departments on general does turn a blind eye on this issue. They are happy for the most part if a Post will generally behave in a VFW Fashion.
They do not like placing a Post under suspension (first true hit to chastise a Post) as then the Department will have to assume some liability for such Post. It will usually cause the death toll non them. Read Section 2 for the ramifications for placing a Post in Suspension. Some Posts will follow the proper State Government rules for opening their clubrooms open for general public. They will pay full taxes on everything. Some will call it their clubroom and it must follow the rules as far as eligibility being 95% qualified members and are under the false belief that Associate membership makes it qualified. If ever IRS audited, they will be busted for it. That 95%, Must be from Qualified Post members. This is why the VFW does not accept Associate Membership (partly). Here is the IRS Link on Veteran Organizations; http://www.irs.gov/irm/part4/irm_04-076-026.html
So, the bottom line, the Posts that have Associate membership are playing with fire.

This is great information, and there is no way I could decipher that from the podium edition.

So back to the question, is this VFW lifetime post member considered to be a social membership, by the above definitions?

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[IJK3770]

I have been sitting out on this one and allowing you all to discuss this but I have found one thing I wish to interject.  In the past we have found that the VFW, National and Departments often turn a blind eye to posts not following the by-laws unless of course someone attends a meeting wearing the wrong headcover. I ran across this story about the new National Judge Advocate General and thought I would share with you.  http://www.tracypress.com/view/full_story/19754655/article-Tracy-man-continues-national-VFW-service?instance=home_our_town   I would suggest you call him directly with reporting seeming disregard of National By-Laws.  Here is the toll free number to use -800-963-3180  Ask for him by name.  Don't expect any results but have fun putting him on a spot about actually enforcing by-laws.  Share your results with us here.
Cheerily
IJK

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[dnkldorf]

I have been sitting out on this one and allowing you all to discuss this but I have found one thing I wish to interject.  In the past we have found that the VFW, National and Departments often turn a blind eye to posts not following the by-laws unless of course someone attends a meeting wearing the wrong headcover.

I am still waiting on a reply?

Active or Social?

I ran across this story about the new National Judge Advocate General and thought I would share with you.  http://www.tracypress.com/view/full_story/19754655/article-Tracy-man-continues-national-VFW-service?instance=home_our_town   I would suggest you call him directly with reporting seeming disregard of National By-Laws.  Here is the toll free number to use -800-963-3180  Ask for him by name.  Don't expect any results but have fun putting him on a spot about actually enforcing by-laws.  Share your results with us here.
Cheerily
IJK

This was just a question, no need to get anyone involved, or jump rank somehow.

Just a simple question really, Active or Social.

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[IJK3770]

Jumping rank is the only way to get the proper answer or to report a post operating in violation of the by-laws otherwise the "Good old boy network" protects them.
There are no provisions in the by-laws authorizing "social members or associate members". Period.
IJK

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[Chris Weber 5468]

A card carrying lifetime member of this post has what, an active membership who is given certain rights and privileges spelled out in the VFW MOP and By-laws, or do they have a social membership whose certain rights and privileges can be taken away at any time, for any reason?

The State told me I am a social member, and have no rights or privileges to this post.

Is this referring to a Qualified VFW Life Member, or an associate life member? If a Qualified Life member, there are members Rights in Section 1. If an associate member, there are no rights per there are no authorized associate members in the VFW. If a Qualified VFW Life Member who is an associate member (in the canteen), the associate part does not matter as it is in contrary to the national By Laws anyway. However, the Section 1 rights still apply.
Not knowing how your Department By Laws are worded.

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[marlinnotafish]

I tried to explain this once before, but evidently I was not successful.

A VFW Post is established as a tax exempt (non-profit) 501(c)(19) Veterans Organization in a certain state, say Pennsylvania.  This VFW Post starts a separate tax exempt (non-profit) corporation as a 501(c)(7) social club for its canteen.

The only ones that can belong to the 501(c)(19) organization are bona fide VFW members.  The articles of incorporation and by-laws of the 501(c)(7) allow anyone to join by paying their dues.  The by-laws of the social club might state members of the VFW Post are automatically members and no further dues are required.  Everyone else pays dues.  Those that pay dues are the ones known as social members of the Home Association, but not social members of the VFW Post.

Therefore, you have VFW Post XXXX, the 501(c)(19), and you have VFW Post XXXX Home Association, the 501(c)(7).  This is very common is Pennsylvania and is perfectly legal.  I believe, but don’t quote me, the State of Michigan also allows Home Associations.  There might be other states that allow this but I don’t know since I have led a sheltered life.  Some other states might not allow this per their requirements for a liquor license.

That is why I posted and asked if this was a VFW problem or a home association problem.  The two are separate animals.

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[Chris Weber 5468]

Yes, i9t is a VFW Problem, Post level anyway;
Sec. 708—Incorporation of Units and Other Activities.
Posts, Districts, and Departments of the Veterans of Foreign Wars of the
United States shall be incorporated within the state where they are located as prescribed
in the Manual of Procedure.
No unit chartered by the Veterans of Foreign Wars of the United States, and
no activities, clubrooms, holding companies or units sponsored or conducted or
operated by, for or in behalf of any such chartered unit, shall separately from the
Post, incorporate under the laws of the state in which it is located for any purposes
whatsoever unless the Articles of Incorporation of such chartered unit and any
incorporated activities, clubrooms, holding companies or units sponsored, conducted
or operated by, for or in its behalf shall include those provisions specified
in the Manual of Procedure. Chartered units failing to comply with the provisions of
this Section or failing to cause compliance by activities, clubrooms, holding companies
or units sponsored, conducted or operated by, for or on behalf of such
chartered unit shall be subject to suspension or revocation of charter.
Should any state incorporation law prohibit provisions specified in the Manual
of Procedure for Articles of Incorporation, it shall be permissible to change the
wording of such provision sufficiently so that the Certificate of Incorporation will
conform to the state laws and at the same time protect the interests of the
Veterans of Foreign Wars of the United States.
The name “Veterans of Foreign Wars of the United States” or some colorable
imitation thereof by any corporation shall be by license only, which may be
revoked for cause.

The Home Association is still under the Direct Control Of the Post! Its By Laws shall not contravene the National By Laws or Department By Laws. The Discipline section of such charter was never brought up and revealed in this thread for a more thorough discussion. So, we can only go with the National By Laws which trumps all other By Laws anyway.

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