Honor Guard Captain

[nreo]

Due to the uncertainty  of the Men's Auxiliary status, the post Honor guard is hesatant to elect a MA member to the position of Captian. I personally cannot find any National, State or Post by-laws prohibiting a MA HG member from being elected the HG Captian.
Please enlighten me as to the status if ya-all would be so kind.

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[marlinnotafish]

What about this section?

Section 803 – By-Laws

No person shall be entitled to use or wear any seal, emblem, badge, insignia, or uniform of the Veterans of Foreign Wars of the United States unless he is
a member in good standing or is authorized by National Headquarters.

I suppose if your Honor Guard uniforms, including headgear, are devoid of any mention, symbol, or emblem of the VFW there would be no problem.

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[IJK3770]

There is no uncertainly about the Mens Auxiliary at this time.  If the Ladies do get their change passed it will not affect existing Mens Aux units.  Or so I am told.
IJK

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[nreo]

Section 803, By-Laws is not an issue in this case. Section 1301: A post if it's by-laws of the Department having jurisdiction so provide, Etc, Etc. The Issue here is: Where in the VFW By-Laws does it state Explicitly, a Mens Auxiliary Member cannot be considered for a Captian of an Honor Guard ?

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[IJK3770]

I don't think it does say that.  If someone tries to tell you that it does make them show it to you.  There are a lot of members out there and say things are or are not in the by-laws but if you call them on it they will not be able to find it.  A lot of Honor Guards have members of other organizations in them because the post cannot find enough to make a Honor Guard.  This would be a good time for Doggy Daddy to chime in here.  He is the resident Honor Guard expert here on the forums.
Cheerily
IJK

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[Chris Weber 5468]

Section 712 Manual of Procedure is very specific.
Sec. 712—National Honor Guard.
Name and Control. The National Honor Guard, Veterans of Foreign Wars of the United
States, shall be governed by and under the control of the National Convention of this
organization and under the control of the Council of Administration and Commander-in-
Chief.
Eligibility. Only active members of the Veterans of Foreign Wars of the United States
shall be eligible for membership in the National Honor Guard of the Veterans of Foreign
Wars of the United States, but such membership shall be continued and conditioned only
upon retaining active membership in the Veterans of Foreign Wars of the United States.

Now, this applies to the National Honor Guard team. What does your Post By Laws state?

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[IJK3770]

Chris stated what is in the National By-Laws as it pertains to the National Honor Guard.  In no way can this be interpreted to mean that this applies to departments/districts/posts.  But he also stated that maybe you could check you post by-laws, if it is not mentioned there then your post is free to do as it wishes.  And if it is in the by-laws they can be changed.
Cheerily
IJK

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[DoggyDaddy]

Due to the uncertainty  of the Men's Auxiliary status, the post Honor guard is hesatant to elect a MA member to the position of Captian. I personally cannot find any National, State or Post by-laws prohibiting a MA HG member from being elected the HG Captian.
Please enlighten me as to the status if ya-all would be so kind.

First off, an Honor Guard Captain is not elected.  The Post Honor Guard is a Committee, and the leader (Captain/Chairman) is appointed by the Post Commander unless Post By-Laws say different. The weapons and blank ammo used by the Honor Guard are on loan to the Post by the military and under control of the Post.
Since the Mens Auxiliary is under the direction/guidance of the Post, It would be IMO necessary for the Post to pass a motion to amend the By-Laws to include a paragraph Addressing leadership of the Honor Guard, allowing the MA to participate and accept appointment of Chairman/Captain of the Honor Guard by the Post Comdr.
Before doing this I would check with the Honor Guard team to see if they are willing to follow Men Aux Member.  They are all volunteers and destroying a HG team with unwanted leadership is not worth the asprin. 
Another problem comes up, if a MA member is appointed as Cpt, He can not attend Post meetings (to my knowledge) to make his Committee/Honor Guard report to the membership or make motions for expenses.
An Alternative solution is for the Post Cmdr's (mbr) appointed HG Captain/Chairman to appoint his own second, a Co-Captain, to run the team/committee and also appoint a HG Adjutant (if/when HG Capt is absent) to make HG Reports at Post Meetings and make motions for expenses, supplies, etc.

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[Chris Weber 5468]

Actually, if the Honor Team Captain is a member of the MA, he can attend the Post Meeting in accordance to By Laws Section 203; Authorized Attendees. Any member of the Post and those on official business shall be recognized by the Post Commander for the conduct of business.
It does not specify that "those on official business" must be members.
The next paragraph; Guests. With the approval of the Post Commander/Committee Chairman, any visiting member or guest may attend a Post/Committee meeting. Such visiting member or guest shall have no voice unless recognized by the Post Commander/Committee Chairman, and shall have no voting privileges.
So, there are 2 ways he can attend if so appoint

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[marlinnotafish]

Section 1301 only authorizes a subordinate unit, i.e., the MA.  Section 803 is very clear and unambiguous.  Only a member in good standing is authorized to wear, etc.  A member of the MA is not a member in good standing of the Veterans of Foreign Wars.  If the MA is a member of the Honor Guard then he cannot wear the VFW insignia or emblem.

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[Chris Weber 5468]

Easy solution to the Patch;
http://www.vfwstore.org/SearchResult.aspx?CategoryID=135
for and hat;
http://www.vfwstore.org/SearchResult.aspx?CategoryID=135

The Post itself retains financial control.
No answer was provided as to the Post in question having Standing Orders, Standard Operating Procedures, or By Laws concerning their Honor Guard. Their should be mention in one of these ways as covered by Article 7.

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[nreo]

The Post in mention Honor Guard has it's own "Standard Operating Procedure" (By-Laws) The Chairman/ Captian is elected by the Honor Guard Members, we, the honor Guard, are only trying to establish the procedure for the Appoinment, Election of the "Chairmen/ Captain, then, adding it to the By-Laws. (SOP)

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[Chris Weber 5468]

I would tweak the National By Laws reading for the Honor Team to suit your needs, as they seem to be reasonable.
Now, if adding to your Post By Laws, National will not accept any amendments to By Laws that are not based on the Template as laid out in the National By Laws. These may be edited to fit your Posts needs, but you cannot take anything out. They did this to standardize the system. Good move as from my understanding, some have never been updated since the start.
Email me for a template.

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[DoggyDaddy]

The Post in mention Honor Guard has it's own "Standard Operating Procedure" (By-Laws) The Chairman/ Captian is elected by the Honor Guard Members, we, the honor Guard, are only trying to establish the procedure for the Appoinment, Election of the "Chairmen/ Captain, then, adding it to the By-Laws. (SOP)

By-Laws and a SOP are two different things.  As Chairman/Cpt of my Honor Guard, I established a SOP for the specific Operation of my Honor Guard Team which covered all aspects of Honor Guard for the HG Chairman/Cpt who replaced me after ten years.  [I retained a copy and will share it with those who need help in drafting up their own].
The Honor Guard is a Committee of the Post and the Chairman of all committees are appointed by the Post Commander in accordance with VFW By-Laws and Ritual. The Honor Guard Team can vote among themselves and nominate a HG Chairman/Capt to the Post Commander for his consideration of appointment.
Naturally if/when the Post Cmdr goes against the wishes of the Honor Guard team members, the members of the team need only get the message across to the Post Commander that the unwanted Cpt will have to search out and find new/other volunteers for the team.  Solidarity

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[nreo]

Joe Kleinsmith, it is the your HG SOP I used last year to make our HG SOP. I used the parts that would pertain to our post. In the creation of the SOP it was structures simular to that of the House Committee, i.e., the house committe elects it's own chairman, so does the HG. Now, this is getting away from the just of this post, "Can a Auxiliary member of the Honor Guard be Captain".

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